Why I Can’t Afford Free (Running the Numbers)

Posted by Paul Colligan on Thursday, April 5, 2007

Podcast (New Media) Expo v Podcamp NYC

Why don’t people do the math anymore?

  • Hotel: $97 PE v $199 PC (Per Night)
  • Hotel Tax: 11.75% PE v 18.5% PC
  • Plane Ticket: $210 PE v $447 PC (obviously different from each city)
  • Parking At Event: $0 PE v $30 PC (Per Day)
  • Airport to Hotel: $0 PE v $75 PC
  • Cab from Parties to Hotel: $0 PE to $? PC
  • A Decent Meal: $20 PE v $40 PC (Per Meal)
  • Known Tables Of Booksellers: 1 PE v 1 PC
  • Amount of (Known) Sponsors Looking For ROI: 6 PE v 62 PC
  • Expected Fellow Podcast Enthusiasts For Free Track: 2,500 PE v 1,100 PC
  • Expected Fellow Podcast Enthusiasts for Paid Track: 600 PE v NA PC
  • Chance at Wacky Podshow Attempt For “Un” Conference: 90% PE v 0% PC
  • Event T-Shirts: 0 PE v 1 PC

Yeah, I’m going to the event that “charges” – I can’t afford not to ;-) .

Nothing but the best of luck and wishes sent to Podcamp NYC. I wish I could be there.

Just, like everything else in life, run the numbers.

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  • http://www.christopherspenn.com Christopher S. Penn

    This is precisely why Hank and Carlos’ PodCruise Miami is such a brilliant idea. As long as you can swing airfare and passage, everything else is pretty much included. Here’s the numbers for PodCruise Miami:

    Airfare: depends on where you live
    Cruise: up to $316 per person
    Food: included
    Hotel: included
    Non-Alcoholic Beverages: included
    Room Service: included
    Chance to watch drunk podcasters fall off a ship: priceless

    We’ll miss you at PodCamp NYC, but here’s a suggestion:

    PodCamp Northwest

    Lead organizer: Paul Colligan

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan…

    PME is a killer show, and it’s a lot nearer to you, and Tim Bourquin has found a *great* venue, top shelf speaking talent, and a vibrant expo floor. I’m really looking forward to PME this fall, and now that we’ve met at CES and talked about your video experiment, I hope we can hang and get an update on it at PME (where GREAT social parties take off and really rock the buzz).

    I think you ought to run PodCamp Portland. There’s going to be one in Seattle, I think, though I haven’t convinced Drew Olanoff that he’s running it yet. (Drew’s from Scriggity.com and The Best Damned Tech Show, Period). Then it’d be in your neck of the woods and not cost nearly as much as Manhattan. (Ooof).

    They’re two different events, and the cost isn’t the differentiator. They co-exist. In fact, that’s why we’re probably doing a pre-con for Tim on PodCamp right there in Ontario.

    Best to you, Paul. : )

  • http://www.ldpodcast.com whitney Hoffman

    I don’t think anyone, least of call the Podcamp NYC Organizers (of which I am one) expected that the final registrants (as of this am- the late reg list is not on the wiki yet) tops 1200. Least of all me, who signed on as a volunteer to register people- I did not think my life would be consumed as it has been.

    This Podcamp is definitely taking on Conference Proportions, whether we like it or not- it does show a hunger out there, a demand for this knowledge. For those willing to give up their free time to organize one, as I will do again with Podcamp Philly, it is the local flavor and community aspects that resonate.

    I have long felt like I am not a “cool kid” because I haven’t been able to make it to the PME or any of the West Coast events, and I hear you run a heck of a show. I hope it will be in the cards this year. But I think you need to look at Podcamp not at competition, but as a further building of interest and demand for this type of conference across the board. In such a naiscent industry, shouldn;t we all be playing on the same team?

  • http://www.paulcolligan.com Paul Colligan

    Christopher,

    Why would I want to run a conference that wouldn’t be as good as PME, and would in the end, end up costing the same, and suck months from my life?

    No doubt the Podcamp folks are working their BUTTS off, but this model seems a bit silly to me when you can just call it what it is, a conference, charge accordingly, and pay the people who are doing the work?

    What am I missing?

    Chris,

    Same question. In terms of running a Podcamp Portland, why?

    Whitney,

    I don’t see Podcamp as competition. I see it, like you said, as proof of concept. People aren’t just hungry for this stuff – they’re starving for it.

    However, when it comes to this whole “unconference free” meme, I just have to laugh. On the average, people are going to spend more money to attend Podcamp than PME and the extra benefit is that nobody gets paid for their efforts. Is this a good model?

    Yes, there are lots of NYC locals who can hop on a subway for a few bucks and attend the day’s events for free, but there are a huge chunk of L.A. types who can jump in their cars and attend the floors and keynotes and parties of PME for free. It’s the same thing.

    Paul

  • http://www.paulcolligan.com Paul Colligan

    Chris,

    “that’s why we’re probably doing a pre-con for Tim on PodCamp right there in Ontario”

    O.k., now I’m really confused. What would a free Podcamp “bring” to PME?

    Paul

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  • http://www.jasonvanorden.com Jason Van Orden

    Paul,

    First, I have to say that NME is a hell of a conference and a “not-to-miss” event. The only reason to compare them is if you have to decide which one gets your investment and attendance. Otherwise I think they both offer education and awareness to the industry.

    I don’t think your numbers are accurate. The one that puzzles me most is this:

    Amount of (Known) Sponsors Looking For ROI: 6 PE v 62 PC

    I believe the definition of sponsors is very different for the two events. Yes, there are 62 sponsors listed for PodCamp NYC. But some of those may have donated $50 or less simply because they wanted to support it. Some of those are in-kind or media sponsors. Yes I am sure many of them are looking for some sort of ROI, but I am not sure what point you are trying to make with the statement.

    In the end we only have about 20 sponsors who donated enough to to have tables. You get a table for $500 at PCNYC, it is a lot more than that at NME. That is not a criticism, but just to say they are very different. Tim has a lot more expenses to cover. Naturally he charges more for the expo floor.

    In any case that is an apples and oranges comparison. It would be more accurate to compare the number of expo floor exhibitors which will be much higher than 6. And in the end, if the sponsors are good, they add value to the show.

    On the average, people are going to spend more money to attend Podcamp than PME and the extra benefit is that nobody gets paid for their efforts. Is this a good model?

    Who are you referring to? It sounds like the first part refers to attendees (“spend more money to attend”) but then it crosses over to the organizers (“nobody gets paid”). The first part I disagree with. I would bet that the majority of people attending PCNYC are spending less than they would to go to CA because they live in the area. What will they get….knowledge, connections, a good time….similar things that they would get at NME. I see nothing wrong with that model.

    As for the second part (what do the organizers get)… here are many reasons I helped organize PodCamp NYC.

    1. I wanted an event in NYC
    2. To raise awareness of an industry that is my life in a key city
    3. To volunteer some time to something I love (don’t always have to make money)
    4. Hopefully extend my brand and awareness of what I do
    (GASP!—I’m not 100% altruistic)

    Other things that don’t gel for me in your numbers: there are much cheaper ways to get meals (I rarely spend $40 when I eat out), you don’t need a car (better without) let alone parking and transport from the airport is as cheap as $7 and convenient. You also didn’t include the price to attend the tracks at NME vs the tracks at PCNYC.

    Naturally this bottom line will change for everyone as you stated. Now, if anyone asks me about NME at PCNYC, I will tell them they can’t afford not to go to NME.

    The events have two different feels. One is not better than the other. Some will prefer one over the other. And some of the things that drive preference may not be readily quantifiable in numbers.

    O.k., now I’m really confused. What would a free Podcamp “bring” to PME?

    The opportunity for the other 500 people (that Tim was not able to give a slot to) to speak to their peers and share their ideas. It brings more content. It brings more value to the whole experience. Why not?

    Now, I totally can see why it might make no sense for you to pay to come to PCNYC or to put together a PodCamp Portland. But there is an underlying message in your post that just confuses me. It seems to presume and imply that the organizers and attendees of PCNYC are stupid.

    I’m sorry that I won’t see you at PCNYC. I always enjoy seeing you speak and chatting.

  • http://www.paulcolligan.com Paul Colligan

    Jason,

    I have nothing but the highest respect for Podcamp and what it’s pulling off. Getting the word out about Podcasting is only good for all of us.

    I just think that it is a conference like any other conference, and should be called accordingly.

    This idea that Podcamp is free and the “other shows” cost money is what gets me. There are ticket costs and there are opportunity costs. Often, opportunity costs are many times the price of the ticket.

    You went to London with me for CPS – I’m gonna bet the ticket and hotel room costs a lot more than the ticket into the event – the same thing.

    I love how people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on their Podcasting gear but don’t want to spend a dime learning how to use it – it just baffles me.

    Yes, you can budget yourself into PodCamp and you can budget yourself into PME.

    Yes, some people “paid for Podcamp” via their sponsorship. And some people paid for PME by, well, paying for PME.

    There is also a feeling that the Podcamps are “better” cause they’re free and, well two things: they aren’t better and, well, they aren’t free.

    Podcamp NYC is a conference. Even Whitney above agrees.

    This blog has always been about running the numbers. I ran the numbers on Podcamp. That’s what I do.

    Sure, twas a little tongue in cheek – but I offered an emoticon

    Here’s another ;-)

    Paul

  • http://www.paulcolligan.com Paul Colligan

    And, one more thing, the food in NYC is much better than Ontario.

    Paul

  • http://www.ldpodcast.com whitney Hoffman

    ok money time

    $200 per night hotel at PC NYC = $400

    NJ Transit from Princeton junction to City $14 RT

    Food ” lunch @ wendy’s across from hotel for family of four $16.75

    (so far)

    these are my expenses so far. And what I said is not that it’s a conference, but that it has grown to conference like proportions. Please don’t misquote me. That’s dishonest.

  • http://www.paulcolligan.com Paul Colligan

    $200 per night hotel for 2 nights plus nyc sales tax is $438 something. Add the other elements and you’ve paid more than $450 bucks for a “free” conference. That’s my whole point.

    Food – that’s why I said “decent” meal. Yes, there are junk food options everywhere. And, I’d prefer the NYC food to anything Ontario offers.

    Did not mean to misquote. Yes, you said “conference proportions.” Just curious, why not call it a conference? Why is that an insult?

    I’m heading on the road right now and won’t be able to comment after this point until later tonight. Please don’t take silence as anything other than I’m driving and my wife hates it when I text and drive.

    Paul

  • Ben

    Is there really anyone out there that doesn’t understand that they will be paying for a place to stay, food, the flight there, etc?? If one event cost for admission and the other doesn’t, well, that’s just the facts. This post seems like a way to say, “Hey, we’re just as cool as the free guys, all things considered!” or “Both events cost about the same, so you might as well come to MY event, (or the one Paul is speaking at)”. It also seems more like an attack on PC, which is a turn off to me. The condescending line about who has a t-shirt or not sealed the deal. Was I the only one to see through the “running of the numbers” to the underlying message? BTW, I wonder which event Paul is speaking at…?

  • http://www.paulcolligan.com Paul Colligan

    Boy this has been a fascinating exercise. I hope the fact that I approved all comments as is, shows I was hoping for the dialogue I got.

    There has been a theme, a meme in Podcasting that not only is “free” better, but “free” is the only acceptable option. That being “traditional” is wrong.

    It’s not a conference, it’s an unconference …

    You don’t have to pay for this event.

    It’s ok to have conferences.

    It’s ok to have free tracks at conferences.

    It’s ok to have paid tracks at conferences.

    It’s ok to pay for events.

    It’s ok to pay the staff who puts on the events.

    It’s ok to pay people for their time.

    That whole bit about

    Nothing but the best of luck and wishes sent to Podcamp NYC. I wish I could be there.

    I actually meant that part too.

    Sorry this was seen as an attack on Podcamp.

    This was meant as an attack on the concept that Podcamp’s most important feature being the fact that is was free.

    Podcamp is much too big and much too cool to have the focus be on “free unconference” nature of it. The focus should be, “Holy crap, look how many people in one city are really into this concept. We really are changing things. This Podcasting thing really is going somewhere.”

    Much like I can’t stand the fact that everyone gets so excited about Podcasting being “free.”

    Free isn’t the most important thing that Podcasting brings to the table either.

    Even if it cost us a few bucks to become the media and destroy the middleman – I still think it is a few bucks well spent.

    Like a decent meal in NYC.

    Like a hotel room at the New Yorker hotel.

    I tend to think that the importantance of Podcamp is that they’ve rallied a thousand plus interested folk to talk about this most important of subject.

    Not what you call it.

    Not what you charge for it.

    But what you do with it.

    Focus on the important stuff.

    Please don’t make this about which event is cheaper to attend, please make this about Podcasting.

    Portland doesn’t have the Andrew Barrons, Jason Van Ordens, Chris Penns, and the list goes on, of the world (please don’t take me leaving your name out of this list as an insult). I doubt a Podcamp Portland would be worth it and the price of a ticket from Portland to Ontario is a few hundred bucks – so I’d recommend everyone in my neck of the woods just head down to that event for training. We’ve had out basic how-to presentations and continue to have them throughout the town. We do have Alex Williams of Podcast Hotel – but even he is moving his event to San Francisco. Sometimes you just need to get on an airplane.

    I’ll try one more time and then consider this thing put to bed – for me at least.

    Podcamp’s most important features are not that it’s free, with free food and with a free t-shirt. It’s the people and the content. PME’s distinguishing characteristic is not that it’s $249 for the track with sessions – it’s the people and the content. Podcasting has a lot more going for it than it’s “free” and value should not be a direct relationship to the price tag of any individual element.

    When I worked in the ISP business way back when, I remember a head houncho at Intel who was making 6 figures and then some. He had this amazing look of pride on his face when he told me that he found the absolute cheapest ISP he could possibly find and was paying $2 per month less than most people in the room. It was a dial-up world back then and the one caveat to his ISP, and he admitted it, was that it took him about 30 minutes to get online.

    He was online daily, maybe twice a day, and for his 2 buck savings lost more than 10 hours a month of his life. That’s twenty cents an hour for those counting.

    Yes, he saved $2. Yes, he was paying less than everyone else in the room.

    But I’m not so sure he really ran the numbers.

    Again, Podcampers, best of luck. If you see a guy named David, please know that my recommendation for him to attend your event never focussed for one second on the fact that it was free.

    Paul